Todd Parlo

Forum Replies Created

  • In reply to: Malus

    February 4, 2023 at 7:22 pm #17175
    Todd Parlo
    Keymaster

    Let’s break this into two components. First, the idea of the origin of a species, and then deal with apples specifically:

    The origin of a plant/seed (or its static long term existence) is called provenance. It is good intuition to make selections based on similar climates, zones, etc. I will save details for another thread, but this consideration helps us choose a species with nuanced genetics that may likely fit our growing spot well.

    As for apples, we should first understand that there are no “apples” native to North America. What I mean by that is there is no evidence of a native species that has the same characteristics of what we culturally consider an apple of commerce. Those nice big sweet and crispy treats are a product of Eurasia (I will avoid being specific here for brevity sake). What we do have are crabapple species, of which there are 4 (of a bit under 50 worldwide). Malus fusca (the oregon/pacific crab), m. coronoria (american, sweet crab), m. angustifolia (southern crab) and m. ioensis (prairie, iowa crab). So in the purest sense, native means it will be a crabapple.

    However, we can discuss naturalized species. This’ll be defined as a plant that is well established within the greater landscape, (whether or not it bodes well for the local ecosystem). Dandelion and Norway Maple are examples. Given enough time, and non-cloning reproduction (ie seed) a species may be reliably fitted to a particular environment. For instance, a European fruit species regardless of origin, hardiness, disease resistance may produce a pool of progeny with greater fitness for the new locale. This takes time, the wide gamut of climatic conditions, exposure to pathogens, etc. to produce a reliable line. A specimen too may be a reliable, even as a source of cloning material (cuttings, scionwood) IF the plant lived long enough to have experienced repeated exposures just mentioned. A 150 year old cider apple tree or better still a particular bristlecone pine tree will fit the bill. A 300 year old forest of nonnative bush fruits would likely supply hardy seed for a similar climate or conditions.

    These considerations are especially important when sourcing seedlings. The same species from variable areas, native or not, may not perform equally well in your yard. For instance, Juneberry species, native to 49 states (sorry hawaii) is better sourced from a humid, cold climate if you are planting in one.

    For the most part clonal stock is different. The genetics are (mostly) fixed in that plant and resulting grafts or cuttings. So, the Alexander apple tree appearing in the Ukraine in 1700 will be reliably similar to the one in your garden today with regard to environmental factors, provided the climate, diseases and pests are similar to the origin.

    In reply to: General Differences in Certifications

    February 4, 2023 at 2:09 pm #17174
    Todd Parlo
    Keymaster

    I’d like to approach this so that the (likely) wide variety of philosophies and limitations out there can be served. Primary will be clarification and some fact digging, so hopefully we can all make a small contribution and inform one another. Let’s begin with a few options and fees, and we can progress to all the nuances of each body (including rules, enforcement, philosophy, etc.) The following are 2023 numbers:

    Certified organic fees (annual) vary according to certification arm for each state approved body. Many are in that 300.00 range as a base but will reflect the annual gross sales. I have included a few examples from our northeast region for GAS of 100,000 dollars:

    Vermont – 515.00
    New York- 1175.00
    Massachusetts- 1300.00
    Maine- 1400.00

    The good news is the available reimbursement. The feds historically gave a 75% return, and recently reduced this to 50%. However, other programs can apply. For instance in 2022 there was an additional 25% reimbursement through OTECP. So, to give an example, a farm in Vermont making just under 100,000 in gross sales paid 128.75

    Certified Naturally Grown allows the membership to decide what they pay for certification but the suggestion is to start at 300.00 and pay more according to our size and ability. The minimum to be considered “paid” is 150.00.

    Biodynamic (through Demeter, the trademark owner of biodynamic) – 715.00 annual fee for most producers at this GAS level.

    Real Organic Project- no fees (donations likely welcomed though). Keep in mind they only certify growers that are already certified organic.

    These are only a few possibilities, and of course say nothing about what each offers. All above have inspections.

    It would be helpful for those with direct experience with different memberships and certifications to chime in.

    In reply to: Orchard Cleanliness

    February 3, 2023 at 7:20 pm #17166
    Todd Parlo
    Keymaster

    The most important thing is to get material out of the orchard that is likely to harbor disease causing organisms. A big source of that will be prunings, so don’t cut so much that you have no time to dispose of the mess. These can be burned, but of course that takes drying time so move it in the meantime. It can be buried if your land allows for it, or for those with the right equipment chipping is an option. Small material has a better chance of composting before reinfection can occur, though it is not foolproof.

    Leaves can also be harbor for disease, but of course this can be trickier to remedy. I coach to mow it, string trim, or what have you in order to reduce overall leaf size. If you are doing this in tandem with sod mowing all the better to build that composting nest. Nitrogen additions and liming can help speed things along as well. You could vacuum or rake if you are a small homestead, but good luck going this route if you are managing a good size orchard. Don’t get discouraged though as every bit of cleanup helps reduce disease pressure (and pests too but that’s another saga).

    In reply to: Tree vigor

    February 3, 2023 at 5:06 pm #17165
    Todd Parlo
    Keymaster

    This answer you can accept as general information related to all fruit trees, not just apples. Vigor is programmed- genetics pure and simple, so some of it we need to plan for, and some of it we can mitigate. There are exceptions, but often the more powerfully growing cultivars are only going to show fruit after making you wait. The two are inversely related in many cases. What is happening here is the tree allocating resources- and with this particular genetic trait it wants to make a big tree first. Fruitfulness is set aside when trees are growing this strong- in general. There is another factor here too, that of branch orientation. In many strong growing trees there can be a higher percentage of vertical growth. Vertical shoots are the strongest in terms of outright vigor. Spy is a case in point, so is Sweet Sixteen (which has Spy in its lineage). This branch orientation phenomenon is a place you may have influence. Bend them down with whatever means at your disposal and the vigor will be reduced on those shoots. Don’t overdo it, just get them toward that 45-60 degree mark instead of straight up to the heavens. This is a common practice to slow up growth and incite fruit bud formation regardless of the tree variety. Pruning, despite being tempting is usually the wrong move. Especially when done when you are normally wise to (dormant season)… you will make matters worse by having a rebound in rank growth. All things considered the tree wants to go through this childhood phase by pushing, then it will settle and produce fruit so you have to move slowly in altering the tendency as well. Get the branches widened a bit to the horizontal. Also be careful with fertilizing as excess will only increase vigor, and delay fruiting. Do enough to keep the tree healthy and no more. Summer pruning can help but I usually coach against it unless you really know what you are doing, as it can be risky. What you can expect (this being the bright side) is the tree behaving once crops appear. The resource competition of developing fruit is one of the most powerful mechanisms for vigor reduction.

    In reply to: Northern Spy

    February 3, 2023 at 4:46 pm #17164
    Todd Parlo
    Keymaster

    Indeed, Northern Spy is a shy one. If you have the original (hailing from Bloomfield NY mid 1800s) you will have to be patient. I agree with Andy it is worth the wait. It rarely disappoints in its growth, when planted in its range (grown in areas of zone 3 but better off in 4 or 5 partly due to the late season crop). For those of you who do not know it, Spy was the classic storage and pie apple. We ate them as dessert apples when we were kids and it was my Dad’s favorite, but it will be a bit tart for most folks to eat in hand. As for growing the tree, the association is typical, this higher vigor and tardiness in bearing. There are some things you can do to alter this, and many that won’t work. I have made comments in the pruning section, where Andy has asked asked a related question.

    In reply to: Apple Scab Fungus

    February 3, 2023 at 4:25 pm #17163
    Todd Parlo
    Keymaster

    Ah, this is a subject near and dear to my heart (or maybe other regions of the anatomy). I had a client ask a related question just this week. We will have this in animal waste and bedding, but I’ll take a guess and assume you mean human urine. The safe route is to keep it in that 10-15 % (water to urine) proportion for spray applications. Now, we all know looking at the color intensity in the toilet bowl how much concentration of constituents can vary so remember this is not a standardized product. Here, however we are not really talking about foliar spraying midseason leaves, or even soil fertilizing but rather leaf breakdown. My opinion is that there is an impasse. You want to get that c-n ratio working for you which means as much nitrogen as possible (the urea/uric acid content) but the more you add the more you are likely to lose from leaching. Doubly worse if vegetation has been winter killed in the ground layer, and this highly soluble product will head south. The real issue is that you are going to run out of urine faster than you would like, despite a human being capable of turning out a respectable 75-200 gallons of the stuff each year. Which most of us incidentally (and pun intended) piss away every year. The Scandinavians have us well beat on the intelligent use of waste by the way. Back to topic though, it makes sense to repeatedly hit the material with a wash if you have the time, and better yet make it part of a program to compost the debris. Spraying in the canopy is likely going to lead to some N blowoff too, ground application less, and when covered with mowings, mulch, etc. soon after, the least. The go-to commercially is of course urea, but certified organic producers are disallowed this one. As for timing, growers in cold climates should be careful to treat late enough in the season to thwart any regrowth or dormancy interference from a nitrogen hit. For those intrigued about the peetenial of this resource you may want to check out the Rich Earth Institute here in Vermont.

    In reply to: Liberty Apple

    February 1, 2023 at 6:16 pm #17147
    Todd Parlo
    Keymaster

    This is one of the most commonly recommended apples at our nursery. It is nearly bullet proof for the novice apple grower due to the disease resistance, hardiness and general usefulness. Most folks love it for fresh eating but it does great in cooking, cider and is a common base in hard cider mixes. We do find it benefits from thinning the fruit in heavy bearing years. If you don’t your fruit will be smaller than those you find in the supermarket.

    In reply to: Infection

    February 1, 2023 at 5:28 pm #17134
    Todd Parlo
    Keymaster

    The simple answer is yes, in many cases, but it is a little more complicated than yes or no. Infectious diseases are instigated through a perpetrator we term the pathogen. There are a good many of these species which is where the complication lies. Each will have a mode or modes of entering a plant to cause trouble (create disease). The big players are fungi and bacteria, and to some degree viruses. There are others but let’s keep it simple. For instance, bacteria don’t do any direct penetration. That is they don’t just barrel into tissue but instead find a way through a natural opening or through a wound. A natural opening could be flower parts, lenticels, or stomata. Viruses can enter through wounds, and in particular when hitchhiking on/in a vector (like a plant biting insect). Fungi tend to be more of a bully and can directly attack tissue without the need for an easy entry point. They may invade only the cuticle (i.e. the waxy leaf coating), squeeze between cells, or drill right into cells. Many pathogens have the ability to secrete toxins and enzymes to break down cell walls or cells completely.
    This all seems grim, so let’s look at a word you included about plants: healthy. In most cases a healthy plant will cope with such attack. Some species (or varieties) will be more resistant than others. Environmental conditions always have bearing. I won’t get into management here but you can be rest assured that keeping your crop as healthy as possible will go a long way in suppressing disease.